Vadim L. Rabinovich is known to the Russian-speaking audience as the author of "Alchemy as a Phenomenon of Medieval Culture" first published in 1976 and recently appeared in second edition. In his interview to the Journal V. Rabinovich speaks about the hurdles he faced while publishing the first edition, makes explicit his understanding of the meaning of alchemy as cultural phenomenon, and explains the reasons for using a special "literary" style in his writings. He gives some particular details about his scholarly and literary career in the history of science.

Keywords: science and religion, science studies, alchemy, hermetical tradition.

Good afternoon, Vadim Lvovich. Our issue is dedicated to the topic "Religion and the scientific Revolution". Disputes about the degree of influence of the religious factor on the formation of Western European natural science continue to this day. Is it possible to speak unambiguously about the positive or negative influence of religion on early Modern science?

Vadim Rabinovich. In general terms, religion is older than science, it has existed as long as man has existed. The creation of science, that is, the scientific theoretical thinking of the seventeenth century, took religion by surprise: scientific knowledge appears, which says that it can do without religion. The attitude is this: scientific knowledge is designed to discover new truths, on the basis of which there are still new ones to a bad infinity, and religion says that the truth exists from the very beginning, it only needs to be revealed and revealed to the city and the world. This is the fundamental difference between religion and science, and why science and religion cannot be reduced to one another.

page 192
How did religion help science become a science, you ask? In my opinion, religion has played a very significant role in this process. First, let us take the idea of a dual truth as it has been formed in Christian theology : one truth is given in revelation, the other is obtained through knowledge. Knowledge and revelation are more or less related in the search for truth, but they have different natures. If the knowledge of revelation is given in the beginning and can appear to a person possessed by faith, then scientific knowledge is obtained. And so Averroes, as well as other thinkers of the Middle Ages, also said that the double truth presupposes a created world, which we study, over which we can put certain experiments that reveal the secrets of this world, and above this pyramid, as its top, is God. God is the source of revelation and insight, without which knowledge will be incomplete, but, I note, it will be knowledge. Thus, the doctrine of dual truth, which was formed within the framework of Christian teaching, marked the beginning of the division into secular science and a separate religion. This process originated within the Christian teaching.

Second, there were two trends in European medieval thought that both made important contributions: scholastic and mystical. The scholastic tendency formed the logical apparatus of the new science, not in its full form, but at least the scholastic method laid the foundation for scientific logistics. Mystics also said that all things in the world are filled with God, not just God is above everything, but every thing seems to be illuminated by God's light, and every thing contains God. This interpretation of the attitude to the created world influenced the formation of an empirical approach to obtaining scientific knowledge, which is extremely important for understanding the specifics of Modern European man.

It is clear about Christian dogmatics. But what would you say in general terms about the influence of Hermetic philosophy?

Hermetic philosophy is usually considered in connection with the so-called "occult sciences," especially alchemy and astrology. I'll talk more about alchemy, since I've been doing more of it.

page 193
My vision of the essence of alchemy is this. An alchemist is not subordinate to a God, but a God-equal. God, of course, is the creator of the world, but the alchemist builds a cosmos parallel to God. He builds the universe, but in terms of earthly, transmutational transformations of metal from one to another, and through the implementation of his work strives for a state of perfection.

For example, gold is symbolized by the Sun, silver-by the Moon, copper-by Venus, so there are two rows, one created by God, and the other by man: the earthly and heavenly rows. I have come up with a formula to express in one sentence the work and the utterance and phraseology of the alchemists: on the one hand, the work is done by the hand, on the other hand, the deed is done by the right hand. Thus, this phrase combines action and sacrament at the same time, connecting the top and bottom of the emerald tablet of Hermes Trismegistus, who, as the alchemists believed, came up with all this.

The alchemist, on the one hand, works with the substance, on the other - reflects on its essence. In the speech of an alchemist, "sulfur", for example, is also the sulfur that, relatively speaking, can be smelled and cut with a knife, and at the same time it is the principle of hardness. By thinking about the nature of a substance and working with it, the alchemist models a method of scientific chemistry that works exactly the same with real substances and at the same time uses general categories. This is the main lesson that alchemy taught chemistry as one of the sciences of Modern times.

Alchemy didn't really claim to be a science in the modern sense. Although it called itself "unchangeable science," real science cannot be unchangeable. "Unchanging science"is such an oxymoron, after all. Alchemy sought ultimate knowledge, such as a hypothetical substance that could be used to produce pure gold or perfect medicine. This is a dream, of course, not only a chemical one - it is a dream of achieving human perfection. The image of this perfection kept receding like a mirage, hiding behind the ocean, and the alchemist always felt in a state of "five minutes to eternity". Eternity meant the achievement of everything and the fulfillment of all time, but it was always five minutes away. And there were always excuses for this, and something always got in the way.

page 194
If alchemy is directed to the heavens, then in the case of astrology, the stars affect the life destinies of people. The astrologer goes from heaven to the concrete life of each person, the alchemist - from concrete substances to heaven. Here, for example, is the case of the famous Italian philosopher and mathematician Girolamo Cardano. He was born a sick boy, and astrologers predicted that he would die at the age of 75. He was cured, lived a long life, and because he truly believed in astrology, he took poison at the end of the 75th year, so as not to embarrass the fortune tellers. As for astrology, I don't believe it, although I enjoy watching the forecasts themselves - they leave room for my imagination.

You've been working on alchemy for a long time. Could you formulate briefly, if possible, of course, a kind of alchemical credo?

Good question. I've been thinking about it, for me the symbol of an alchemical act is the philosopher's stone. The Philosopher's Stone is the cornerstone of Christ's philosophical stumbling block. Why is that? The Alchemical Middle Ages were, from the point of view of the dogmatic Middle Ages, heresies, which they eventually stumbled over, because alchemy anticipates the science of Modern times. This stone is philosophical in so far as the alchemical process, as I have already said, involves simultaneously operating with the real substance and thinking about its nature.

As for the "Christ in the bosom" - of course, an alchemist, a heretic, because he opposes himself to Christians, competes with God, sympathizes with the Gnostics, if you will, he is more pagan than Christian. The alchemist must pretend to be a Christian, so that he will not immediately be hanged or burned - I would say that he sees pagan dreams, but in the form of a Christian reality. This is why alchemy is almost permitted and flourishes in the courts of various Medieval princes.

Your doctoral dissertation was devoted to the problem of reconstructing pre-scientific forms of knowledge. Could you give us a very general overview of this work?

page 195
It was a ruse and trick necessary to get a research degree. I was actually defending the book. The author's abstract was officially titled, as I recall, "Experience in the historical reconstruction of pre-scientific forms of knowledge." And the dissertation was decoded in parentheses - " Alchemy as a phenomenon of medieval culture." The fact is that at that time it was incredibly difficult to defend yourself with such a wording.

The second edition of your famous book was recently published. Can you tell us how the first edition differs from the second?

This edition reproduces the text published in 1979. In addition, it presents the "censorship history" of that publication. It was completely dramatic. Those were some pretty bad times. There was a so-called internal review institute, and this book was sent for seventeen internal reviews. My director Semyon Romanovich Mikulinsky sent my work to his reviews, and I sent it to mine. My reviews were great - from Bakhtin, Asmus, Rutenburg, Averintsev, Likhachev... And his reviews were poor-from G. Mayorov, G. V. Bykov, N. Figurovsky. This new edition reproduces, as Peter Abelard would say, the story of my troubles. And there's also a pamphlet in which I satirized all my detractors and opponents. Many, however, helped me, and I also told them about them in colors.

How did you come to study alchemy?

I am a chemist by training, graduated from the Mendeleev Chemical Institute. After that, I graduated from the Gorky Literary Institute in the class of the wonderful poet Ilya Selvinsky. At the same time, I was a full-time graduate student at the Institute of Fossil Fuels, where I wrote my PhD thesis "Investigation of some propane transformations on mixed polyfunctional catalysts". And now, having defended my dissertation, I walk through Malaya Lubyanka and see the "Institute of the History of Natural Science and Technology". I go there, there's no one at the Institute, I don't think it's a big day-

page 196
Nick Lee, it turns out, works there two days a week. I really liked it. I go in, and the deputy is sitting there. Director Alexander Sergeevich Fedorov, I tell him "I am Rabinovich". "Well, what are you famous for?" "I write poetry and wrote my PhD thesis." In short, after working there for a year on a voluntary basis, I asked for a topic about alchemy.

Why alchemy? I have two degrees-on the one hand I am a writer, on the other - a chemist. I wanted to do something in the history of chemistry so that I could apply my chemical knowledge and write something so poetic at the same time. My two professions helped each other in choosing this topic.

So I come to S. R. Mikulinsky and say that I want to write about alchemy as a phenomenon of medieval culture. By this time, I had already published an article in the BSE on the topic of alchemy. Mikulinsky listened to me and said: "But after all, alchemy is a pseudoscience, and we have a scientific institute, and you will be engaged in some kind of pseudoscience." And I say to him: "No, Semyon Romanovich, this is not pseudoscience, this is a cultural phenomenon." He answers me: "Well, this can't be happening." And then I show him this article from the encyclopedia, he reads it from beginning to end, sees my last name and exclaims:"So this is what you wrote yourself!". And I tell him: "I wrote it myself, but now this is the opinion of the entire Soviet Union!". He had nothing to hide, but he was deeply offended.

Which of the alchemists had the greatest impact on your work, did you study someone specifically?

I was most interested in Roger Bacon. He was probably the closest thing to me. He was an experimenter, a martyr, and a prisoner.

Can your alchemy classes be considered a form of resistance to the Soviet system?

Well, I've never been a dissenter. I was a dissenter, but not a dissident. It was the scientific norm that I opposed with all my being. Roger Bacon, hiding his interest, co-

page 197
nechno, like any self-respecting Franciscan, sought out the original foundations of Christianity, considering them holy and important, and this was the greatest sin. Just as in my own time, the demand for the restoration of Leninist norms of party life, for example, was much more seditious than saying "down with the Soviet government."

Do you have any plans for the future? Have you published any other works on alchemy?

Now I have given the book "Vision of a Miracle worker who gained experience and lived fate (Roger Bacon)" to the Aletheia publishing house, I hope that readers will like it. And, by the way, in 1991 I also published a book dedicated to the image of a man of the early Middle Ages - "Confessions of a bookworm who taught the letter, but strengthened the spirit". It's about Augustine, Alcuin, Abelard, and Francis.

Can you point out people who have influenced your life and work, including your studies in the history of alchemy?

I must name my teacher, the philosopher Vladimir Solomonovich Bibler. He then worked at the Institute of Natural History and Technology and taught home seminars, which lasted almost until his death. So when I showed him my book Confessions of a Bookmaker, he said: "Vadik, stop pretending to be a scientist, write as God wills." And since God doesn't put anything bad on my soul, I rewrote it the way I wanted. "Alchemy", of course, is also written at the behest of the soul, but it is a little scientific, it is the book of a neophyte just entering the scientific life, who secretly tried to please the scientific establishment, and here I was no longer afraid of anything.

Let me ask you a stupid question. A scientific publication is usually recognized by its form - it requires compliance with the academic style, the availability of a reference device, footnotes, and a sequence of wording. First of all, are you annoyed by the need to follow the norm, or do you rather want to speak out in your own voice, which is constrained by the norm?

page 198
The sillier the better. My task was to reproduce the alchemical type of thinking. How to do it? It was very expensive to set up an alchemical laboratory, so I decided to write an alchemical treatise on alchemy in the style of the alchemical treatise itself, but in such a way that it simultaneously reflects a modern view of alchemy. Phraseologically, my work is alchemical, but it is modern in content. Why did I choose this syncretic style? In this style, born at the intersection of the alchemical and the scientific, I showed the syncretism of alchemical activity itself, the impossibility of reducing it to a scientific exposition. I just wanted to reproduce the subject as I thought it was.

The style most irritated my opponents. I was told: "Let the content be yours, but change the style." It was the style that seemed dangerous, shattering, if you will, undermining the foundations of the universe. But for some reason, many people like this text. There's some magic about it that appeals.

"Alchemy" basically attracts attention with its style. Nevertheless, the attempt to clothe scientific content in a literary form causes a dual reaction. Perhaps it is precisely his artistry that disposes the reader to him, as to a good novel.

When you say that I have clothed scientific content in the appropriate literary form, this is not entirely true. Form and content are not related in the same way as is customary, for example, in Marxist-Leninist aesthetics. Just as in quantum physics, the electron is both entirely a wave and a particle, so here form and content co-exist simultaneously, and it is impossible to say that it is possible to get content out of the form, or to express the form without removing the content. The form is created along with the content.

What would you recommend to people who are starting to learn alchemy, its history and practice for the first time?

page 199
I advise them to read my books. In "Alchemy" revealed the history of a homunculus, which in some ways was akin to the new Soviet man. This is "my" alchemy, I expressed myself and the life of the country in this book. So, to express yourself in the subject that you are studying, to enter into this image-this is the most important thing. Otherwise-nachetnichestvo. The living is when there is a counter movement of the object to the subject, the subject becomes alchemical, and the alchemical object becomes modern. Without this movement, there is no living historical knowledge.

At the end of our conversation, I would like to move a little away from the main topic of our meeting. How did you turn from the natural sciences to the humanities?

In chemistry, I was cramped, so I entered the literary Institute, which taught me to be free. Humanitarian knowledge, unlike natural science, is not precise, but it is strict and personal. The humanist is a centaur, a borderline creature that jumps between pure fiction and the accuracy of natural science presentation. I am currently considering a book about the Middle Ages, which will also be devoted to this topic - "At the Three Centaurs". It will tell you about images that show three different sides of the Christian Middle Ages - "Faustopheles", "Sanquixote"and " Yandrogin".

Discussions about the importance and necessity of humanitarian, in particular, historical education are still ongoing. Why do we need humanitarians in principle, could you briefly summarize the meaning of their activities?

I will say cryptically-the humanities prolongs lives. What does it mean? Now I have prepared a book about the Russian avant-garde - this is a book about the business experience of V. Khlebnikov and A. Kruchenykh, perhaps the best of what I have written. How to reproduce this "gibberish" and" gibberish " of Russian futurists? After all, they seemed to recreate the first speech, were in the element of verbatim, formed the first words from it, like children. As I approached them, I brought them closer to me. We met in the middle of this research, if you will-

page 200
niya, and so I extended my life there, and theirs here. It can be said that I found the alchemical elixir of immortality, even if not eternal life, but at least life in human memory.

Interviewed by V. Razdiakonov

page 201

Permanent link to this publication: